MASTERS OF DRIVING

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Re: MASTERS OF DRIVING

Postby Shekel » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:13 pm

You probably can't do anything with digital controls to be worthwhile. Even if you could somehow restrict the input to do only minor turns, you're not getting the full range you need. Definitely think about getting something else if you want to play better.
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Re: MASTERS OF DRIVING

Postby Bart » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:27 pm

The game physics could just be such that no mapping of digital controls would ever produce a satisfactory response. I suspect that when these sorts of games were ported to home consoles with digital d-pads, the physics themselves were altered. And I'm not exactly sure how. I should probably take a look at some home ports in emulation (Virtua Racing on Genesis/32X, Daytona on Saturn, Ridge Racer on PSX, etc.)

In emulation, all we can really do to map an analog input to a digital one is use the time elapsed since the key was pressed to determine the analog value. That is, the analog input we feed into Supermodel becomes a function of the time that the key is pressed. When the key is released, the analog value changes as a function of the time since release. Right now, we just have a linear rate of increase and decay. I wonder, though, if it would be possible to allow users to specify an arbitrary curve of analog value vs. time. Maybe the appropriate thing to do is a quick ramp initially and then a slower one. Or vice versa -- a slow but accelerating ramp-up.

An even more complicated system could perhaps create select different ramp up/ramp down curves based on how far along one curve the user was before releasing the button and then pressing it again within a certain time interval. For example, if you press 'left' for the first time and hold for a few frames, the steering wheel begins to turn quickly. If you let go for a few frames and then press it again (tapping the key), a slower ramp-up curve is selected. Then, if you release for a longer amount of time, you go back to the first curve, etc.

It could get really complicated, really fast, and with so many degrees of freedom, it could be impossible to devise a good set of curves.
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Re: MASTERS OF DRIVING

Postby Toshiko » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:06 pm

I feel like we've had this conversation before...

MAME has configurable inc/dec rates for analog with digital interface, so you can make it behave more like the digital home ports mentioned (which is a gradual inc with much faster dec on release, and Sega Rally on Saturn even has these speeds configurable). Sometimes the instant max/min can be beneficial; Rave Racer has a physics bug similar to snaking on later Mario Kart/F-Zero titles, where rapidly tapping right/left (to their max values, followed by instant return to neutral) will accelerate the car well beyond its max speed.
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Re: MASTERS OF DRIVING

Postby isamu » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:37 pm

fefor wrote:I have a question regarding all the arcade racing games, whether they are on model 2 or model 3, the thing is that I currently play them with my PC keyboard, and when I press the left or right keys the car does a full flick like if you were doing a full left or right turn on the steering wheel. I can do some "good" runs in Daytona but this prevents me from doing better time records or driving smoothly, I noticed that people whom use Xbox controllers do not have this problem, so my question is: is it possible to calibrate the controls so I can play like that on the keyboard? if not then I might just need to buy a steering wheel or xbox/ps3 controller :(


fefor just get a steering wheel dude. The games were designed to be played that way and you will enjoy them 100X more because of it. The difference in immersion from using a KB or even a controller is night and day. Wheels are relatively cheap these days. Go for a Logitech G29 or the older G27. Or if you can spare a little more in your budget, Fanatec and Thrustmaster makes some good wheels for the price. Of course you can always go insane and go the OSW or Bodnar route :mrgreen:
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Re: MASTERS OF DRIVING

Postby fefor » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:04 am

Yeah I might just buy a steering wheel, already found some good prices online, I had one a few years ago but my brother broke it :lol:
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Re: MASTERS OF DRIVING

Postby MrThunderwing » Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:52 am

Toshiko wrote:I feel like we've had this conversation before...

MAME has configurable inc/dec rates for analog with digital interface, so you can make it behave more like the digital home ports mentioned (which is a gradual inc with much faster dec on release, and Sega Rally on Saturn even has these speeds configurable). Sometimes the instant max/min can be beneficial; Rave Racer has a physics bug similar to snaking on later Mario Kart/F-Zero titles, where rapidly tapping right/left (to their max values, followed by instant return to neutral) will accelerate the car well beyond its max speed.


I think Sega Rally on the Saturn is one of the best ever replications of arcade style handling in a home port using a digital D-pad, the handling is absolutely sublime. Whoever was responsible for the conversion duties at Sega really did a fantastic job. Got so much enjoyment out of that game back in the 90's.
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Re: MASTERS OF DRIVING

Postby LeSpank » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:17 am

MrThunderwing wrote:
Toshiko wrote:I feel like we've had this conversation before...

MAME has configurable inc/dec rates for analog with digital interface, so you can make it behave more like the digital home ports mentioned (which is a gradual inc with much faster dec on release, and Sega Rally on Saturn even has these speeds configurable). Sometimes the instant max/min can be beneficial; Rave Racer has a physics bug similar to snaking on later Mario Kart/F-Zero titles, where rapidly tapping right/left (to their max values, followed by instant return to neutral) will accelerate the car well beyond its max speed.


I think Sega Rally on the Saturn is one of the best ever replications of arcade style handling in a home port using a digital D-pad, the handling is absolutely sublime. Whoever was responsible for the conversion duties at Sega really did a fantastic job. Got so much enjoyment out of that game back in the 90's.


Agreed. Call me mental but I prefer how the Saturn Sega Rally handles with a good d-pad to the arcade original and a 180 degree wheel.
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Re: MASTERS OF DRIVING

Postby RedTail » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:56 am

I've been creating longplays for the various Daytona games and their clones over the last couple months. This seems like the right place to share! :)

➣ Daytona USA (Xbox 360) - http://youtu.be/fVDEMc5AGGM
➣ Daytona USA (Saturn) - http://youtu.be/YRYPXZQ1BBg
➣ Unlockable Horse - http://youtu.be/SxL8vkyEp-k
➣ Victory Racing SE - http://youtu.be/O2PnfS75cjM
➣ Taytona Arcade Racing - http://youtu.be/5gmV5K5vaOA
➣ Burning Road - http://youtu.be/wUt9XVXO5Ts
➣ Daytona USA Deluxe - http://youtu.be/ImOB3txntMs
➣ Daytona USA 2001 - http://youtu.be/4IXtNDbzZso

I'm currently working on Daytona 2 in Supermodel. I can't really figure out how to gear drift through most of the turns w/ the three standard cars, but I'm doing pretty well with the Hornet. I can routinely finish first on Beginner and Expert. Still working on a first place finish for Advanced and Mix. Wish I could figure out how to do the rocket start with the Hornet tho. It doesn't seem to work the same way as in the original.
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Re: MASTERS OF DRIVING

Postby MrThunderwing » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:48 pm

RedTail wrote:I've been creating longplays for the various Daytona games and their clones over the last couple months. This seems like the right place to share! :)

➣ Daytona USA (Xbox 360) - http://youtu.be/fVDEMc5AGGM
➣ Daytona USA (Saturn) - http://youtu.be/YRYPXZQ1BBg
➣ Unlockable Horse - http://youtu.be/SxL8vkyEp-k
➣ Victory Racing SE - http://youtu.be/O2PnfS75cjM
➣ Taytona Arcade Racing - http://youtu.be/5gmV5K5vaOA
➣ Burning Road - http://youtu.be/wUt9XVXO5Ts
➣ Daytona USA Deluxe - http://youtu.be/ImOB3txntMs
➣ Daytona USA 2001 - http://youtu.be/4IXtNDbzZso

I'm currently working on Daytona 2 in Supermodel. I can't really figure out how to gear drift through most of the turns w/ the three standard cars, but I'm doing pretty well with the Hornet. I can routinely finish first on Beginner and Expert. Still working on a first place finish for Advanced and Mix. Wish I could figure out how to do the rocket start with the Hornet tho. It doesn't seem to work the same way as in the original.


Supposedly it's the same for the Hornet as Daytona USA 1.

Phantom Full Force wrote:2. Do the fast start. This works for the 3 Daytona 2 cars (not the Hornet, see fast start in Daytona 1). Hold the brake and try to get the RPM's between the white & yellow parts of the tachometer (7000 RPM's). Then about .1 seconds before the guy says "Go," let off the brake and slam on the gas. You'll pop a wheelie and take off. Be careful that you don't rear-end the car in front of you (the lousy yellow SG8 Cartool car nonetheless) and make sure to upshift right away.
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Re: MASTERS OF DRIVING

Postby RedTail » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:09 am

MrThunderwing wrote:
RedTail wrote:I've been creating longplays for the various Daytona games and their clones over the last couple months. This seems like the right place to share! :)

➣ Daytona USA (Xbox 360) - http://youtu.be/fVDEMc5AGGM
➣ Daytona USA (Saturn) - http://youtu.be/YRYPXZQ1BBg
➣ Unlockable Horse - http://youtu.be/SxL8vkyEp-k
➣ Victory Racing SE - http://youtu.be/O2PnfS75cjM
➣ Taytona Arcade Racing - http://youtu.be/5gmV5K5vaOA
➣ Burning Road - http://youtu.be/wUt9XVXO5Ts
➣ Daytona USA Deluxe - http://youtu.be/ImOB3txntMs
➣ Daytona USA 2001 - http://youtu.be/4IXtNDbzZso

I'm currently working on Daytona 2 in Supermodel. I can't really figure out how to gear drift through most of the turns w/ the three standard cars, but I'm doing pretty well with the Hornet. I can routinely finish first on Beginner and Expert. Still working on a first place finish for Advanced and Mix. Wish I could figure out how to do the rocket start with the Hornet tho. It doesn't seem to work the same way as in the original.


Supposedly it's the same for the Hornet as Daytona USA 1.

Phantom Full Force wrote:2. Do the fast start. This works for the 3 Daytona 2 cars (not the Hornet, see fast start in Daytona 1). Hold the brake and try to get the RPM's between the white & yellow parts of the tachometer (7000 RPM's). Then about .1 seconds before the guy says "Go," let off the brake and slam on the gas. You'll pop a wheelie and take off. Be careful that you don't rear-end the car in front of you (the lousy yellow SG8 Cartool car nonetheless) and make sure to upshift right away.


I did eventually figure it out, but it's not quite the same as in the original Daytona. In the original Daytona, you needed the engine to be revved somewhere 6,000 and 7,000 RPM. The tachometer is yellow in that range. In Daytona 2, like you said, you need to be right at or slightly below 7,000 RPM. 7,000 RPM is the very start of the yellow range, whereas in the original game, it's the end of it.
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