Supermodel Forum

antonioneves wrote:Also boomz looked at it and saw ffb values on car collision much like there is already for wall. Problem is his plugin can replicate that drifting effect. The supermodel native driveboard emulation ffb is abs spot on its just missing this last detail. Maybe in future when you have time or is there any other devs who are working on it. Thanks and good luck with startup

Hey what's up antonio. So basically you're saying there are no ffb car to car collision effects in Scud Race even when using Boomslangnz plugin? Hmm, I haven't played the game in months so don't recall but I think you may be right. I always figured it was down to the way the game's native ffb behaved on the *REAL* arcade cab, so didn't think nothing of it. But now that you say the real machine does have car to car collision ffb, that definitely makes sense. I certainly think this is something Boom should be able to fix. Maybe we should bring this to his attention.

Furthermore, this problem is also prevalent in Daytona 2. I could have sworn the real arcade cab had car to car collision ffb but it's missing in SuperModel. Once in a blue moon you actually do get the ffb when colliding with another car in Daytona 2, but it's few and far between. Strange. Well lets hope a fix for these games for that specific issue can be addressed in the future.

On another note, I just want to say good luck with the new startup Bart. I'm sure whatever direction you decide to go in in life, you will be successful. To this day I still often marvel at the fact that we can play Sega Model 3 games at home, and it's all thanks to you. We all appreciate you brother. You've given the emulation community an *AMAZING* gift!!!

isamu wrote:

antonioneves wrote:Also boomz looked at it and saw ffb values on car collision much like there is already for wall. Problem is his plugin can replicate that drifting effect. The supermodel native driveboard emulation ffb is abs spot on its just missing this last detail. Maybe in future when you have time or is there any other devs who are working on it. Thanks and good luck with startup

Hey what's up antonio. So basically you're saying there are no ffb car to car collision effects in Scud Race even when using Boomslangnz plugin? Hmm, I haven't played the game in months so don't recall but I think you may be right. I always figured it was down to the way the game's native ffb behaved on the *REAL* arcade cab, so didn't think nothing of it. But now that you say the real machine does have car to car collision ffb, that definitely makes sense. I certainly think this is something Boom should be able to fix. Maybe we should bring this to his attention.

Furthermore, this problem is also prevalent in Daytona 2. I could have sworn the real arcade cab had car to car collision ffb but it's missing in SuperModel. Once in a blue moon you actually do get the ffb when colliding with another car in Daytona 2, but it's few and far between. Strange. Well lets hope a fix for these games for that specific issue can be addressed in the future.

On another note, I just want to say good luck with the new startup Bart. I'm sure whatever direction you decide to go in in life, you will be successful. To this day I still often marvel at the fact that we can play Sega Model 3 games at home, and it's all thanks to you. We all appreciate you brother. You've given the emulation community an *AMAZING* gift!!!

Hey man. No no no. Boom always had car and wall colision in his plugin but it lacks the most important ffb effect which is the drift... imho the drift effect in native supermodel is what makes the game awesome. Without it sorry but its just not the same thing. He tried adding drift in plugin but for some reason the effect comes out garbage. Its really hard to describe. I can send the private dlls he modded but its not worth it. So to sum it up:

Native supermodel ffb works great and its just missing car colision.

Boomz plug has everything but drift effect.

If one of the devs adds car colision whenever its possible problem solved.

On a side note: anyone with experience on a sr2 arcade can confirm if there is indeed car and wall ffb?

isamu wrote:

antonioneves wrote:Also boomz looked at it and saw ffb values on car collision much like there is already for wall. Problem is his plugin can replicate that drifting effect. The supermodel native driveboard emulation ffb is abs spot on its just missing this last detail. Maybe in future when you have time or is there any other devs who are working on it. Thanks and good luck with startup

Hey what's up antonio. So basically you're saying there are no ffb car to car collision effects in Scud Race even when using Boomslangnz plugin? Hmm, I haven't played the game in months so don't recall but I think you may be right. I always figured it was down to the way the game's native ffb behaved on the *REAL* arcade cab, so didn't think nothing of it. But now that you say the real machine does have car to car collision ffb, that definitely makes sense. I certainly think this is something Boom should be able to fix. Maybe we should bring this to his attention.

Furthermore, this problem is also prevalent in Daytona 2. I could have sworn the real arcade cab had car to car collision ffb but it's missing in SuperModel. Once in a blue moon you actually do get the ffb when colliding with another car in Daytona 2, but it's few and far between. Strange. Well lets hope a fix for these games for that specific issue can be addressed in the future.

There is so much I'd love to just sit down and look into but it'll be a while if ever. Honestly, I would first prioritize getting a proper GUI (something I've long wanted to do just haven't had time) and text rendering for in-game messages (which are now logged to console). Then back to the myriad of remaining emulation issues. I also would like to get the Pro-1000 emulation working (probably before anything else in Supermodel, TBH). We have the Windows SDK and demo programs and they haven't seen the light of day since the last 90's. Nobody has seen a Real3D image generator machine since then, they were probably all destroyed, and so it's a really fun preservation project.

The FFB stuff would be a good project for someone new to the code base to dive into as it should be fairly easy to parse through. As to why the collision effect isn't emulated, I'm not sure. It probably is not as simple as intercepting a command and creating a rumble effect. The Z80-based drive board is supposed to do that. My guess is something fundamental is not being emulated and hence FFB signals are not being generated.

On another note, I just want to say good luck with the new startup Bart. I'm sure whatever direction you decide to go in in life, you will be successful. To this day I still often marvel at the fact that we can play Sega Model 3 games at home, and it's all thanks to you. We all appreciate you brother. You've given the emulation community an *AMAZING* gift!!!

Thanks a lot man But it wasn't just me or even primarily me. Ville Linde and Stefano Teso did a lot more way back ca. 2003 when Supermodel first started. And Nik and Ian really took it to the next level. The accuracy now is amazing.

I think standalone real3d emulation would be a fun project. I did try but only got so far. It wrote to the hw but got in a write loop. It was expecting something back from the h/w I could never figure out. Maybe someone who has a good understanding of assembly could figure it out. The asapi layer used for talking to the scsi layer is pretty simple. There isn't much to it.

The hardware is nearly identical to the arcade hw. Biggest difference is the standalone hw the tilegen chip doesn't exist. In it's place is something similar but a bit simpler. It has some 2d chip that just draws and scrolls a single bitmap layer I think.

Bart wrote:

isamu wrote:

antonioneves wrote:Also boomz looked at it and saw ffb values on car collision much like there is already for wall. Problem is his plugin can replicate that drifting effect. The supermodel native driveboard emulation ffb is abs spot on its just missing this last detail. Maybe in future when you have time or is there any other devs who are working on it. Thanks and good luck with startup

Hey what's up antonio. So basically you're saying there are no ffb car to car collision effects in Scud Race even when using Boomslangnz plugin? Hmm, I haven't played the game in months so don't recall but I think you may be right. I always figured it was down to the way the game's native ffb behaved on the *REAL* arcade cab, so didn't think nothing of it. But now that you say the real machine does have car to car collision ffb, that definitely makes sense. I certainly think this is something Boom should be able to fix. Maybe we should bring this to his attention.

Furthermore, this problem is also prevalent in Daytona 2. I could have sworn the real arcade cab had car to car collision ffb but it's missing in SuperModel. Once in a blue moon you actually do get the ffb when colliding with another car in Daytona 2, but it's few and far between. Strange. Well lets hope a fix for these games for that specific issue can be addressed in the future.

There is so much I'd love to just sit down and look into but it'll be a while if ever. Honestly, I would first prioritize getting a proper GUI (something I've long wanted to do just haven't had time) and text rendering for in-game messages (which are now logged to console). Then back to the myriad of remaining emulation issues. I also would like to get the Pro-1000 emulation working (probably before anything else in Supermodel, TBH). We have the Windows SDK and demo programs and they haven't seen the light of day since the last 90's. Nobody has seen a Real3D image generator machine since then, they were probably all destroyed, and so it's a really fun preservation project.

The FFB stuff would be a good project for someone new to the code base to dive into as it should be fairly easy to parse through. As to why the collision effect isn't emulated, I'm not sure. It probably is not as simple as intercepting a command and creating a rumble effect. The Z80-based drive board is supposed to do that. My guess is something fundamental is not being emulated and hence FFB signals are not being generated.

On another note, I just want to say good luck with the new startup Bart. I'm sure whatever direction you decide to go in in life, you will be successful. To this day I still often marvel at the fact that we can play Sega Model 3 games at home, and it's all thanks to you. We all appreciate you brother. You've given the emulation community an *AMAZING* gift!!!

Thanks a lot man But it wasn't just me or even primarily me. Ville Linde and Stefano Teso did a lot more way back ca. 2003 when Supermodel first started. And Nik and Ian really took it to the next level. The accuracy now is amazing.

Guess its a different effect from wall colisions since that is there already. Anyways im not a dev but i assumed it would be something simple like wall colisions but less stronger. Like in daytona 1.

Having the real hardware (driveboard and panel) but no cpu stack (I use supermodel), I have started to list what command code translate to a force feedback effect.
Some command code are effects sequence that gives this special effects like drifting or collision. Unfortunatly I did not yet integrate this in supermodel because of missing time...
Depending on the game eeprom, the effects are not the same.
I made tables to document this :
https://github.com/njz3/vJoyIOFeederWithFFB/blob/master/DRIVEBOARD.md
Still hope to put this in supermodel at some point.

njz3 wrote:Having the real hardware (driveboard and panel) but no cpu stack (I use supermodel), I have started to list what command code translate to a force feedback effect.
Some command code are effects sequence that gives this special effects like drifting or collision. Unfortunatly I did not yet integrate this in supermodel because of missing time...
Depending on the game eeprom, the effects are not the same.
I made tables to document this :
https://github.com/njz3/vJoyIOFeederWithFFB/blob/master/DRIVEBOARD.md
Still hope to put this in supermodel at some point.

Great. There is hope then to have scud fixed one day. Thank you!

antonioneves wrote:

njz3 wrote:Having the real hardware (driveboard and panel) but no cpu stack (I use supermodel), I have started to list what command code translate to a force feedback effect.
Some command code are effects sequence that gives this special effects like drifting or collision. Unfortunatly I did not yet integrate this in supermodel because of missing time...
Depending on the game eeprom, the effects are not the same.
I made tables to document this :
https://github.com/njz3/vJoyIOFeederWithFFB/blob/master/DRIVEBOARD.md
Still hope to put this in supermodel at some point.

Great. There is hope then to have scud fixed one day. Thank you!

Yes that is very interesting and hopeful indeed!