Should Supermodel emulate Model 1 and 2 games?

[nuexzz..]

I mean, model 3 is not totally different from model 2

[zuppa_di_pesce]

I'm taking advantage of this post to intrude on the discussion although my specific request has nothing to do with Model1 or Model2...
Rather than having Model1 or Model2 emulated, in the short term I love SuperModel to have:
* it's own GitHub page
* UI
* cool input system management
* RetroaArch core
* Network play


... And in any case... Guys... Many thanks for your work and time giving us this awesome emulator (on Linux also)!


Love&Peace

[ferrarifan]

Before everyone gets excited, no I am NOT planning to do this and am not allowed to contribute code to Supermodel at the moment anyway. I'm just thinking out loud.

I wondered recently what advantage Supermodel offers over e.g., MAME in the long run. Yes, MAME has a long way to go with Model 3 but it'll get there one day. There are lots of aspects of the Supermodel code base in dire need of an overhaul and one big advantage projects like MAME have is lots of developer interest. Supermodel has attracted some really brilliant folks (Ian, Nik, Harry Tuttle, SpinDizzi, and others) but bigger emulator projects have a massive scale advantage.

Partly it's my fault for not setting up a proper development system with Github, automated builds and packaging, pull requests, etc. I hope to do that one day. But partly, I think Model 3 has fairly narrow appeal. I'd personally love to see Model 1 and 2 emulation and also 90's (and maybe late 80's, too) pre-Naomi 3D platforms. All of these are in MAME, though, and it's not clear what Supermodel (which lacks a GUI to this day!) would bring to the table there. There was once a proliferation of standalone 3D emulators (Zinc, Modeler, VivaNonno, ElSemi's Model 2 Emulator) but MAME is now the bleeding edge as well as the most convenient for most folks.

Something I'd love to see in the future, especially once a proper UX is put in place, is a return of Nik's real-time 3D debugging tool. Model 3 in particular lends itself well to this because the hardware consumes a fairly high level representation of what is being rendered. It's trivial to explore the scene. I don't think this would be possible if Model 3 used a more conventional rendering architecture. Model export/import, texture-editing, etc. would be exciting features. However, again, it's a lot of work for relatively little reward -- the Model 3 game library is very limited. These sorts of bells and whistles are much better suited for console emulators, which have enormous game libraries to explore.

So I'm curious -- what's the future of arcade emulation and Supermodel in particular? What niche is there to exploit?

I think the Model 1 and 2 will probably it be a great addition to supermodel but like you said, you don't have plans to do this which I understand this emulator is focused on Model 3 emulation

Personally, MAME It's a very awesome arcade emulator that I ever used a long time because there's so many of these great games that we can enjoy in a comfort of our own home.(Well it doesn't offer the same arcade experience because I think a real cabinet is more authentic) I also want to see non-SEGA-related arcade standalone emulators I wish somebody would write a Konami 3D emulator because the man big problem with the Konami emulation was some of the 3D driver's are not 100% accurate and a problem with those games the display flickering is the big main issue with some of the Konami GTI club/ ZR-107 boards.

Plus performance is also the reason why people don't like MAME. As far as I know that MAME is only capable of running Model 1 games. Since the latest version of MAME, Model 1 emulation runs a whole lot better so they overhaul the TGP processor in order to make these games playable fully without problems however, is slightly perfect there's still a few problems to fix but it looks better compared to the older previous versions especially Virtua Fighter had a bit of graphical issues.

The Model 2 emulator It's by far one of my favorite emulators that I used to enjoy my favorites like Waverunner and Daytona USA

[MegaGenesis]

Since ElSemi is now working for Sega as i heard, maybe the Nebula Model 2's source code now belongs to then and might have been used in some official Sega re-releases. I love MAME, but i agree with the other guy above that Model 2 and early 3D arcade emulation needs more spotlight. I have a Model 2 Emulator setup guide on my YouTube channel, and as the time passes, i've been noticing more and more people are having trouble even starting the emulator. All the tricks and fixes that once worked now no longer work. As Windows 10 get more and more updates, this emulator seens to get more broken. The only reason it stills works on my W10Pro PC is because i'm still running 1709.

I think the Sega Model and 3D arcade emulation right now is too underground to a lot of people. It's not like people aren't interested, the Sega Lord X channel proves there's still a "market" for many of the old Sega arcade games. I would advice:

-Porting Supermodel to Retroarch could bring more attention to the project. (ps: i'm aware some devs dislike RA);
-An official YouTube channel for Supermodel updates, just like Dolphin does from time to time;
-An overhaul to the website. The Supermodel website is very outdated, the links and compatibility list are for the 0.2 version, which was released back in 2013. Unless new users know Emulation Wiki, there's no way they will find the SVN builds. Google search for this forum is a bit messy, you have to be very specific with the terms, otherwise the results will give you bealty stuff. Also, there's no need to force the new user to registed in the forum just to download a SVN build;
-Announce new updates and games tested on popular forums, like r/emulation on Reddit.

[Chine2]

Do, what's next?

[lllll44]

"Namco system 23" and "KONAMI VIPER" are my most wanted personally:) Some great gems on those.
but i heard they are very tough to crack.

[Hydreigon233]

Same for Konami NWK-TR and Hornet. I honestly can't really determine what causes those serious issues in Mame right now.

[Joaquim Gonçalves]

I wish was able to see triforce emulated 100% because i love soccer bart.
Well at least make it playable on dolphin, it miss something it doesn´t make it run.
It appears "Boot/Firm version does not fulfill game the spec. Please enter game test to update."

The file update firmware is here: https://gofile.io/d/e0CEG3 No idea how to get it to work with Dolphin

List is of games here: https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/Triforce#Game_List
If someone is interrested to find the clue of this.

[Trojan X]

LTTP. Supermodel completing emulating Model 2 too would be fantastic. This plus Network Play (Lan & Online) would blow everyone's mind.

However, if any other SEGA hardwares that really needs to be properly emulated right now more than anything are the following:

> SEGA NAOMI 2
> HIKARU
> SEGA MODEL 1
> SEGA CHIHIRO (we must get a true version of Virtua Cop 3)


After that, we should move off SEGA and onto NAMCO with a true System 22 and Super 22. Everyone would love to have a true 4K Ridge Racer working to perfect and with brilliant scaling. However, it took Supermodel 10 years to get to this point so I'm not sure if it's feasible to expand the project to cover those machines unless tons of tons of devs can get involved so all can be done in our lifetime. Kidding.

That's my take. I hope it's what expected.

[Joaquim Gonçalves]

Trojan X... you can play Virtual Cop 3 on CXBX Emulator.