Feedback issues?

[RetroRepair]

Ok so I've had a play around and here's what I've found:

Force feedback doesn't seem to work correctly with my Logitech Driving Force. In Scud Race, the grass sometimes makes the wheel vibrate, when I hit cars or walls it just give the wheel a bit of resistance and when I'm turning it'll randomly jerk the wheel left or right.

Daytona doesn't do anything with feedback enabled.

Sega Rally 2 feedback works but feels kinda random, like forces are fired off at the wrong times or sometimes not at all.

Also would it be normal to see a 50% drop in speed in Scud Race with FFB enabled? When I disable it, Scud Race runs full frames. It doesn't seem to affect the other games at all though?

If it helps my specs are:

E8400 C2D
Biostar G31D-M7
2GB DDR2
GeForce 7300GS
XP64 Pro
Logitech Driving Force

Even without FFB I'm still enjoying Scud Race, been such a long time since I had a go and it's just as fun as I remember

[nikdd]

Hi RetroRepair,

Hmm, that does sound odd.

Scud Race vibrating the wheel when you drive over grass and giving the wheel a jolt when you hit the walls is normal. However, it shouldn't jerk the wheel left or right when you are turning except when you are performing a power slide, but even then it shouldn't feel random. And if you don't get any feedback with Daytona, then there is clearly something odd going on.

Also a 50% drop in speed is unexpected. Your CPU is a Core 2 Duo so you should experience some slow down with the drive board enabled (more than 2 cores are needed for optimal multi-threading), but a drop of 50% is way too much.

Some things to try first are:

- checking your Logitech driver options,

- playing around with the strengths of the different force feedback effects in Supermodel.ini - in particular, try reducing them as if they are too large then this can occasionally cause problems,

- try going into the service menu of each game and testing the drive board functionality from there. Scud Race and Daytona have a simple menu that lets you test turning the wheel left and right, while Sega Rally has a slightly more complex one that also lets you test the auto-centering.

If none of these help, then I'll have a think about other options we can try.

BTW, my wheel is a Logitech (WingMan Formula Force GT) and it runs fine so we should be able to get other Logitech wheels working well.

Cheers, Nik.

[nikdd]

Hi RetroRepair, me again!

Will you try putting the following in your Supermodel.ini file and seeing if you still get the large slow down with Scud Race:

ForceFeedback = 1
DirectInputConstForceMax = 0
DirectInputSelfCenterMax = 0
DirectInputFrictionMax = 0
DirectInputVibrateMax = 0

This will disable all of the effects but keep the drive board running. If the game doesn't slow down with these settings then it means that one or more of the effects was failing before and somehow holding up the drive board thread. Since the main Model 3 thread and the drive board thread are kept in sync, this would have the effect of slowing down the whole emulator.

If this is the case then you should then be able to work out which effect is the problematic one by enabling them one by one.

Thanks, Nik.

[RetroRepair]

Thanks for the response Nik.

I have in my Logitech control panel these set:

Overall effects strength: 100%
Spring Effects Strength: 0% (afaik this is not controlled by the game, just the logitech driver?)
Damper Effect Strength: 100%

Interestingly too, when I reduced all effects in the supermodel.ini by half I got the same amount of feedback but the emulator ran at pretty much 100% speed again

In Sega Rally 2's drive board test, left and right roll only works properly when forces are set to 14/15 and up. Centering works fine when I turn the wheel clockwise, but when I turn it anticlockwise, it gets to a point where it feels like feedback is going to work, then it just disappears.

Scud Race drive board test just adds a bit of resistance when enabling left/right roll while Daytona 2, again does nothing at all with all tests.

I should add, I have FFB working fine in model 2 emu with all games and various PC driving games.

Thanks for the help

[RetroRepair]

I actually just noticed I had xinput feedback options in my ini, now it all seems to be running at correct speeds with directx feeback options

The effects are still the same as above though.

[RetroRepair]

Ok, so I set FFB effects in the ini to 200% and now scud race drive board test works somewhat. Left roll works instantly as expected though right roll just gives friction as before. In game, walls throw the wheel pretty hard now but other cars don't do anything when you hit them? Grass still vibrates the wheel nicely.

Sega Rally 2 now feels somewhat correct when doing the centering test (with force set down to about 10/15) though when coming back from a left roll jerks pretty bad.

Daytona still does nothing at all

[Bart]

Ok, so I set FFB effects in the ini to 200% and now scud race drive board test works somewhat. Left roll works instantly as expected though right roll just gives friction as before. In game, walls throw the wheel pretty hard now but other cars don't do anything when you hit them? Grass still vibrates the wheel nicely.

AFAIK, I don't think anything actually happens in Scud Race when you hit other cars. In Daytona, there is an effect. Someone else can confirm.

Sega Rally 2 now feels somewhat correct when doing the centering test (with force set down to about 10/15) though when coming back from a left roll jerks pretty bad.

Daytona still does nothing at all

When you start Daytona, does it print a message indicating that the drive board is being initialized? If not, then you may have forgotten to place the correct ROM in there.

[nikdd]

AFAIK, I don't think anything actually happens in Scud Race when you hit other cars. In Daytona, there is an effect. Someone else can confirm.

I believe this is the case for Scud Race from testing out the drive board ROM - it only sends a jolt when you touch the barrier, not another car - but we've yet to find anyone with access to a real machine who can confirm whether this is definitely the case or not. In Daytona 2, however, you definitely do feel a jolt when hitting another car.

When you start Daytona, does it print a message indicating that the drive board is being initialized? If not, then you may have forgotten to place the correct ROM in there.

Good suggestion Bart - I didn't think of that ! Best to try the obvious solution first!

Still curious though that RetroRepair is getting asymmetrical effects - the left and right rolls in the drive board test menu should feel identical as the same force strength is sent to the wheel in both cases.

[RetroRepair]

Oh good lord you'r right, I put the drive board ROM in the daytona2.zip

Does the same as Scud Race in drive tests though, left roll works fine, right roll just gives resistance on the wheel.

In game, I have to set constantforcemax in the ini to 0 otherwise it yanks the wheel all over the place. Same if I set it to 100 or 200%. At 50% it's just resistance. There is feedback when you hit a wall and go over grass, though nothing when I hit another car, though maybe this is due to having turned off constantforcemax?

[RetroRepair]

Still curious though that RetroRepair is getting asymmetrical effects - the left and right rolls in the drive board test menu should feel identical as the same force strength is sent to the wheel in both cases.

Yeah that's an odd one. I don't have a normal driving force setup though. I have an L2M2 as described here: http://www.gamoover.net/tuto/l2m2-inter ... station-23 which I thought might have been somewhat to blame, though it's properly calibrated and like I said before I have no issues in any other game and left/right force effects are fine when testing in the logitech panel.

I had thought maybe that was the cause of the feedback being very weak and having to jack it up to 150-200% to get anything out of it in scud race (after more testing apparently only right hand walls, left hand walls just give resistance again, as per the test menu), though the logitech panel and normal PC games with no configuration tools work fine.